Just one question - How many of the none random wins were achieved off of the random players card play? Hey I'm playing devil's advocate here - but if a random play wins the game for the tactical player then its still a matter of randomness to determine who wins. As an example if both players were playing tactically one would not play THE BRAIN NO TV if they had the TV in hand and the other player has The Brain in play, a random choice here would give the game to the owner of The Brain through non-tactical play. Even if playing The Brain whilst The TV is not in play is considered tactically sound there's little chance that anyone else's tactical play would result in a win for the holder of the Brain. Mike Hargreaves Multimedia Developer BMS World Mission 01235 517627 http://www.bmsworldmission.org ~ -----Original Message----- ~ From: fluxx-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ [mailto:fluxx-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ~ fluxx-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ Sent: 05 April 2006 18:17 ~ To: fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ Subject: Fluxx Digest, Vol 11, Issue 1 ~ ~ Send Fluxx mailing list submissions to ~ fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ ~ To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ~ http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/fluxx ~ or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ~ fluxx-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ ~ You can reach the person managing the list at ~ fluxx-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ ~ When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more ~ specific than "Re: Contents of Fluxx digest..." ~ ~ ~ Today's Topics: ~ ~ 1. Experiment about tactics in Fluxx (Ryan Hackel) ~ 2. Re: Experiment about tactics in Fluxx (Joseph Pate) ~ 3. RE: Experiment about tactics in Fluxx (Charles Boyung) ~ ~ ~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ~ ~ Message: 1 ~ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 13:04:50 -0400 (EDT) ~ From: "Ryan Hackel" <deeplogic@xxxxxxxxxx> ~ Subject: [Fluxx] Experiment about tactics in Fluxx ~ To: fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ Message-ID: <20060404170450.7014A8A194@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ~ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ~ ~ ~ ~ Howdy, rabbits and all! ~ ~ I've conducted a scientific study in response to one of the ~ biggest criticisms of Fluxx... that it is too chaotic for ~ strategy or even tactical decision making. I wanted to ~ quantify the amount of effect that decision making has on ~ Fluxx. So I played 200 2-player games of Fluxx, with one ~ player playing normally and the other player playing ~ completely at random. I even measured the amount of first ~ player advantage. The results are posted at BoardGameGeek: ~ ~ http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/105929 ~ ~ ---Ryan, rabbit since '05 ~ ~ _______________________________________________ ~ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com ~ The most personalized portal on the Web! ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ------------------------------ ~ ~ Message: 2 ~ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 13:26:52 -0700 (PDT) ~ From: Joseph Pate <jpate@xxxxxxxxxxx> ~ Subject: Re: [Fluxx] Experiment about tactics in Fluxx ~ To: fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ Message-ID: <20060404203120.212012016@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ~ Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii ~ ~ I may just be a blab rabbit, but I think this post (Ryan's, ~ not mine) calls for some Rabbit points... assuming enough ~ people still believe in science... ~ ~ -Ankhst ~ ~ > X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1144179769-24285-89-0 ~ > X-Barracuda-URL: http://65.219.4.131:80/cgi-bin/mark.cgi ~ > X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on ~ lists.looneylabs.com ~ > X-Spam-Level: * ~ > X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.8 required=5.0 ~ > tests=AWL,RCVD_FAKE_HELO_DOTCOM, ~ SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=disabled version=3.1.0 ~ > X-Original-To: fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ > Delivered-To: fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ > To: fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ > X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please ~ include it ~ > with any ~ abuse report ~ > X-AntiAbuse: ID = 2e1f9db5ea2c1b5424da0adc0ddc53c8 ~ > From: "Ryan Hackel" <deeplogic@xxxxxxxxxx> ~ > MIME-Version: 1.0 ~ > X-Sender: deeplogic@xxxxxxxxxx ~ > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ~ > Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 13:04:50 -0400 (EDT) ~ > X-ASG-Orig-Subj: [Fluxx] Experiment about tactics in Fluxx ~ > Subject: [Fluxx] Experiment about tactics in Fluxx ~ > X-BeenThere: fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 ~ > List-Id: Fluxx Discussion List <fluxx.lists.looneylabs.com> ~ > List-Unsubscribe: ~ > <http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/fluxx>, ~ <mailto:fluxx-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe> ~ > List-Archive: <http://lists.looneylabs.com/pipermail/fluxx> ~ > List-Post: <mailto:fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ~ > List-Help: <mailto:fluxx-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=help> ~ > List-Subscribe: ~ <http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/fluxx>, ~ <mailto:fluxx-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=subscribe> ~ > X-Barracuda-Bayes: SPAM GLOBAL 0.9970 1.0000 4.3076 ~ > X-Virus-Scanned: by Marvell Semiconductors Inc at marvell.com ~ > X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 4.34 ~ > X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: Yes, SCORE=4.34 using global scores of ~ > TAG_LEVEL=3.5 ~ QUARANTINE_LEVEL=5.0 KILL_LEVEL=7.0 tests=RCVD_FAKE_HELO_DOTCOM ~ > X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.02, rules version 3.0.10481 ~ > Rule ~ breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ~ ---------------------- ~ -------------------------------------------------- 0.03 ~ RCVD_FAKE_HELO_DOTCOM Received contains a faked HELO hostname ~ > X-Priority: 5 (Lowest) ~ > X-MSMail-Priority: Low ~ > Importance: Low ~ > X-Barracuda-Spam-Flag: YES ~ > X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 19:18:29.0804 (UTC) ~ FILETIME=[8E665EC0:01C6581C] ~ > ~ > ~ > ~ > Howdy, rabbits and all! ~ > ~ > I've conducted a scientific study in response to one of the biggest ~ > criticisms ~ of Fluxx... that it is too chaotic for strategy or even ~ tactical decision making. I wanted to quantify the amount of ~ effect that decision making has on Fluxx. So I played 200 ~ 2-player games of Fluxx, with one player playing normally and ~ the other player playing completely at random. I even ~ measured the amount of first player advantage. The results ~ are posted at BoardGameGeek: ~ > ~ > http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/105929 ~ > ~ > ---Ryan, rabbit since '05 ~ > ~ > _______________________________________________ ~ > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com ~ > The most personalized portal on the Web! ~ > ~ > ~ > _______________________________________________ ~ > Fluxx mailing list ~ > Fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ > http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/fluxx ~ ~ ~ ~ ------------------------------ ~ ~ Message: 3 ~ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:31:40 -0500 ~ From: "Charles Boyung" <charles@xxxxxxxxxx> ~ Subject: RE: [Fluxx] Experiment about tactics in Fluxx ~ To: "'Joseph Pate'" <jpate@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Fluxx ~ Discussion List'" ~ <fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ~ Message-ID: <001601c6583f$edbf50c0$5a01a8c0@CHARLIE> ~ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ~ ~ I think it deserves something, anything for two reasons: ~ ~ 1) Driving more people to the excellent boardgamegeek site ~ 2) Posting an article of this magnitude on a site that pans ~ games like Fluxx so horribly, in attempt to prove the haters wrong. ~ ~ -----Original Message----- ~ From: fluxx-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ [mailto:fluxx-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joseph Pate ~ Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:27 PM ~ To: fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ Subject: Re: [Fluxx] Experiment about tactics in Fluxx ~ ~ I may just be a blab rabbit, but I think this post (Ryan's, ~ not mine) calls for some Rabbit points... assuming enough ~ people still believe in science... ~ ~ -Ankhst ~ ~ > X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1144179769-24285-89-0 ~ > X-Barracuda-URL: http://65.219.4.131:80/cgi-bin/mark.cgi ~ > X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on ~ lists.looneylabs.com ~ > X-Spam-Level: * ~ > X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.8 required=5.0 ~ > tests=AWL,RCVD_FAKE_HELO_DOTCOM, ~ SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=disabled version=3.1.0 ~ > X-Original-To: fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ > Delivered-To: fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ > To: fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ > X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please ~ include it ~ > with any ~ abuse report ~ > X-AntiAbuse: ID = 2e1f9db5ea2c1b5424da0adc0ddc53c8 ~ > From: "Ryan Hackel" <deeplogic@xxxxxxxxxx> ~ > MIME-Version: 1.0 ~ > X-Sender: deeplogic@xxxxxxxxxx ~ > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ~ > Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 13:04:50 -0400 (EDT) ~ > X-ASG-Orig-Subj: [Fluxx] Experiment about tactics in Fluxx ~ > Subject: [Fluxx] Experiment about tactics in Fluxx ~ > X-BeenThere: fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 ~ > List-Id: Fluxx Discussion List <fluxx.lists.looneylabs.com> ~ > List-Unsubscribe: ~ > <http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/fluxx>, ~ <mailto:fluxx-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe> ~ > List-Archive: <http://lists.looneylabs.com/pipermail/fluxx> ~ > List-Post: <mailto:fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ~ > List-Help: <mailto:fluxx-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=help> ~ > List-Subscribe: ~ <http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/fluxx>, ~ <mailto:fluxx-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=subscribe> ~ > X-Barracuda-Bayes: SPAM GLOBAL 0.9970 1.0000 4.3076 ~ > X-Virus-Scanned: by Marvell Semiconductors Inc at marvell.com ~ > X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 4.34 ~ > X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: Yes, SCORE=4.34 using global scores of ~ > TAG_LEVEL=3.5 ~ QUARANTINE_LEVEL=5.0 KILL_LEVEL=7.0 tests=RCVD_FAKE_HELO_DOTCOM ~ > X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.02, rules version 3.0.10481 ~ > Rule ~ breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ~ ---------------------- ~ -------------------------------------------------- ~ 0.03 RCVD_FAKE_HELO_DOTCOM Received contains a faked HELO hostname ~ > X-Priority: 5 (Lowest) ~ > X-MSMail-Priority: Low ~ > Importance: Low ~ > X-Barracuda-Spam-Flag: YES ~ > X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 19:18:29.0804 (UTC) ~ FILETIME=[8E665EC0:01C6581C] ~ > ~ > ~ > ~ > Howdy, rabbits and all! ~ > ~ > I've conducted a scientific study in response to one of the biggest ~ > criticisms ~ of Fluxx... that it is too chaotic for strategy or even ~ tactical decision making. I wanted to quantify the amount of ~ effect that decision making has on Fluxx. So I played 200 ~ 2-player games of Fluxx, with one player playing normally and ~ the other player playing completely at random. I even ~ measured the amount of first player advantage. The results ~ are posted at ~ BoardGameGeek: ~ > ~ > http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/105929 ~ > ~ > ---Ryan, rabbit since '05 ~ > ~ > _______________________________________________ ~ > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com ~ > The most personalized portal on the Web! ~ > ~ > ~ > _______________________________________________ ~ > Fluxx mailing list ~ > Fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ > http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/fluxx ~ ~ _______________________________________________ ~ Fluxx mailing list ~ Fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/fluxx ~ ~ ~ ~ ------------------------------ ~ ~ _______________________________________________ ~ Fluxx mailing list ~ Fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ~ http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/fluxx ~ ~ ~ End of Fluxx Digest, Vol 11, Issue 1 ~ ************************************ ~