Looney Labs Icehouse Mailing list Archive

Re: [SDG-discuss] [Icehouse] Possible Zendo game at SDG

  • From"Subhan Tindall" <subhan.michael@xxxxxxxxx>
  • DateFri, 10 Mar 2006 16:23:16 -0800
Not having used POVRay, I have no idea how difficult it is to generate
Koans either by hand or by macro-type programming.
But, given the above caveat, here's a couple of thoughts relevant to
online Zendo.
Given a feature set, a fairly simple grammer can be used to generate a
large # of koans
EG features like:
# of pips
color(s) of pieces
orientation of pieces(up/down/left/right/weird)
# of pieces pointing at other pieces
I think I actually have a  grammar for koan generation somewhere I
sponged off the individual who wrote Zendomizer (PalmOS program for
generating Koans http://www.geocities.com/~karlvonl/Zendomizer.html
Some work would be involved in the initial setup, but a large # of
koans could be generated and catagorized acording to the sets of
features that they match(basically Koans are physical implementations
of abstract logic statements about sets of features and can be treated
as points in N-space which allows for fairly straightforward pattern
Once you have a large database of Koans, and a grammar it seems like
it would be fairly straightforward to generate a base Koan (AKHTBNI
blah blah blah), then select an image from the set of images that
match the koan, and an image that does not match the koan.
Players are constrained to building koans/making gueses based on the
implemented feature sets(not necessarily as restrictive as it sounds
in practice).  They can make the picture any way the like (or no
picture at all :-), and submit a description of it based on the
feature set.  This is then compared against the master Koan.
When needed, a new Koan can be selected from a more restricted set of
images based on both the included features & features that need to be
I'm not the guy to do it anymore (haven't programmed anything in years
:-(, but it seems to me that it would even be possible automagically
generate images of koans from a feature description in some fashion IE
AKHTBNI (red=1 or green = 1) AND blue=2 AND (total pips = odd) is used
to generate an appropriate set of images from a set of base images or
macros of some sort(this is the part where POVray knowledge would be
Of course this is a little more restrictive than f2f Zendo, but I
think would still capture a lot of the spirit of the game.

Have fun, all!

On 3/10/06, Ryan Hackel <deeplogic@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Surprised nobody's pointed out Tom Phoenix's attempt at wiki-Zendo, Zendo-Tao:
> http://icehousegames.org/wiki/?title=Zendo-Tao
>  --- On Fri 03/10, Alex Scouras < alexscouras@xxxxxxxxx > wrote:
> From: Alex Scouras [mailto: alexscouras@xxxxxxxxx]
> To:
>      Cc: sdg-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, icehouse@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:56:31 -0800
> Subject: Re: [SDG-discuss] [Icehouse] Possible Zendo game at SDG
> I can't recall where (and couldn't find any offhand), but I think  <br>I've seen online zendo games where people just post photographs of  <br>their koans.<br><br>If you want to roll your own, photo-zendo would be super easy to code  <br>up in SDG.<br><br>-Alex<br><br><br><br><br>On 10 Mar 2006, at 01:02, Aaron Dalton wrote:<br><br>> I'm wondering if I should simply *facilitate* online Zendo first, and<br>> then see if I can adapt the SDG paradigm.  I really like the Povray<br>> approach and Ryan McGuire's Povray includes make it so much easier.  I<br>> was thinking I could:<br>>    - create a koan creator that parses povray files and generates the<br>> image files<br>>    - create a searchable koan library so common koans don't have to be<br>> re-created every time<br>>    - create a koan requestor system so people who can't get the  <br>> hang of<br>> the povray syntax can request a given koan and somebody else can  <br>> create<br>> it for them<br>>    - provide wiki space
> for online play in whatever format seems to  <br>> work<br>> best<br>><br>> If this is something people want and would actually use, then it would<br>> be a good starting point.  I could play a few games and try to figure<br>> out the best way to adapt it to the SDG paradigm over time.  Feedback<br>> anyone?<br>><br>> I would probably animate the koans.  It's not really necessary I guess<br>> though.  Here's an example:<br>> http://superdupergames.org/images/animate.gif<br>><br>> -- <br>> Aaron Dalton       |   Super Duper Games<br>> aaron@xxxxxxxxxx   |   http://superdupergames.org<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> sdg-discuss mailing list<br>> sdg-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<br>> http://superdupergames.org/mailman/listinfo/sdg-discuss<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>sdg-discuss mailing list<br>sdg-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<br>http://superdupergames.org/mailman/listinfo/sdg-discuss<br>
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