> From: "Kimberly Terrill" <kiter5@xxxxxxxxx> > I don't know what a straw man arguement is. I may look it up later. I am now > curious. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man -- "A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted." > On 8/7/07, Marnen Laibow-Koser <marnen@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > (As for "the restaurant will become a nightmare with unsupervised > > > children"--Look up "straw man argument" on wikipedia.) The misrepresentation was with "unsupervised." At no point did I state or imply that children playing in the "kid-friendly" areas would be unsupervised, any more than they are now in the thousands of FLGSs throughout the world (or the thousands of malls, McDonalds, Applebee's, etc, etc). Once set up, the straw man is knocked down by a puff of air: the exaggeration that the alleged lack of supervision necessarily (or perhaps Marnen only meant 'most likely') leads to a "nightmare." Who supervises them, you might ask? * Well, at younger ages (someone gimme a number) it's their parents or no one. (Unless a fourth business is rolled in, as is being discussed: day care with a gaming theme run by trained, insured staff... but that could really be turning this into the "Gamer Mall," not the "Gamer bar" with which we started.) * By the age where they are old enough to be left to wander the malls or are latchkey-safe (12ish? 13? I was latchkey by 12, IIRC), their supervision is the same as at an FLGS: the staff keeps an eye on things and is alert for altercations or injury. * By the time they can drive... need we bother with that case? They're essentially adults too young to be in a bar alone; that's it. Any one of those groups can be asked to leave if problems arise. Parents will (shamefacedly, I should hope) take their young'uns away; the teenie-boppers can call their parents to tell them they've been thrown out (and can wait at another establishment or out on the sidewalk to be picked up); and the late teens can drive themselves wherever their hearts desire. At no point does a nightmare ensure, that I can see. As it turns out, I know a guy who runs a skate park at which, often, kids are dropped off to skate all day. He reports no nightmares. So... you did not reply to the question I asked about your theory of the inverse relationship between tobacco and gamers... perhaps you will respond to this one: Do you feel there are a special circumstances endemic to gamers whereby they are less easily supervised in a potentially dangerous environment than skate punks on 12 foot half pipes? David