Looney Labs Rabbits Mailing list Archive

RE: Gamer bar -- was: Re: [Rabbits] no more hobby store.... I am sad

  • FromDavid Artman <david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • DateWed, 08 Aug 2007 08:02:14 -0700
> From: "Kimberly Terrill" <kiter5@xxxxxxxxx>
> I don't know what a straw man arguement is. I may look it up later. I am now
> curious.

"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation
of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw
man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then
attribute that position to the opponent. A straw man argument can be a
successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading
people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's
actual argument has not been refuted."

> On 8/7/07, Marnen Laibow-Koser <marnen@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > (As for "the restaurant will become a nightmare with unsupervised
> > > children"--Look up "straw man argument" on wikipedia.)

The misrepresentation was with "unsupervised." At no point did I state
or imply that children playing in the "kid-friendly" areas would be
unsupervised, any more than they are now in the thousands of FLGSs
throughout the world (or the thousands of malls, McDonalds, Applebee's,
etc, etc).

Once set up, the straw man is knocked down by a puff of air: the
exaggeration that the alleged lack of supervision necessarily (or
perhaps Marnen only meant 'most likely') leads to a "nightmare."

Who supervises them, you might ask?
* Well, at younger ages (someone gimme a number) it's their parents or
no one. (Unless a fourth business is rolled in, as is being discussed:
day care with a gaming theme run by trained, insured staff... but that
could really be turning this into the "Gamer Mall," not the "Gamer bar"
with which we started.)
* By the age where they are old enough to be left to wander the malls or
are latchkey-safe (12ish? 13? I was latchkey by 12, IIRC), their
supervision is the same as at an FLGS: the staff keeps an eye on things
and is alert for altercations or injury.
* By the time they can drive... need we bother with that case? They're
essentially adults too young to be in a bar alone; that's it.

Any one of those groups can be asked to leave if problems arise. Parents
will (shamefacedly, I should hope) take their young'uns away; the
teenie-boppers can call their parents to tell them they've been thrown
out (and can wait at another establishment or out on the sidewalk to be
picked up); and the late teens can drive themselves wherever their
hearts desire.

At no point does a nightmare ensure, that I can see. As it turns out, I
know a guy who runs a skate park at which, often, kids are dropped off
to skate all day. He reports no nightmares.

So... you did not reply to the question I asked about your theory of the
inverse relationship between tobacco and gamers... perhaps you will
respond to this one:
Do you feel there are a special circumstances endemic to gamers whereby
they are less easily supervised in a potentially dangerous environment
than skate punks on 12 foot half pipes?