>What? Oh, come on that's totally close enough. It's not even a stretch to accept >square + circle = cylinder. Given the basis for all these other "formulas," if those >work, this one works too. While I wouldn't call any of them deep mathematical truths, >they do form a coherent working concept. I might grant rhombus, grudgingly (granted I would be grudging about circle + triangle for cone). As for cones and cylinders I would suggest: circle + point + 3D = cone 2 circles + set of parallel lines + 3D = cylinder I would suggest that you include a point keeper, a line keeper, a set of parallel lines keeper, a 90 degree intersection keeper, and a 3D keeper. Ok, are the goals 3D objects or 2D shapes, for starters? _____________________ Going with 3D gaols. Keepers: Point Circle Equilateral Triangle Rhombus Parallel Lines 90 Degree Intersection 3D Goals: Cylinder = Circle + Parallel Lines + 3D Cone = Circle + Point + 3D Box = Rhombus + 90 Degree Intersection Sphere = Circle + 90 Degree Intersection Pyramid = Equilateral Triangle + 90 Degree Intersection Tetrahedron = Equilateral Triangle + 3D Torque = Circle + 3D ______________________ Just as an example. Thanks Fred Poutre Cloven Fruit Games