Looney Labs Fluxx Mailing list Archive

RE: [Fluxx] After Andy's "Draw First" ruling

  • FromScott Sulzer <ssulzer@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • DateTue, 09 Oct 2007 14:00:23 -0700

Sorry, but I wanted to add in a few comments of my own here.


I also think that "No-Hand Bonus" becomes problematic with "play first".  Do
you have to draw the 3 cards before playing any if your hand is empty?  In
my opinion, "No-Hand Bonus"'s text definitely implies that "observing the
current draw rule" is the first thing you do "at the start of your turn".

There's no problem with the "No Hand Bonus" when mixed with the "Play First" option. If you have cards in your hand, the No Hand Bonus doesn't affect you.  Nor does it say that you must Draw your cards at the beginning of your turn. It simply says you must "draw a new hand of 3 cards before observing the current Draw rule."   If you don't have any cards in your hand... well, then you can't continue your turn until you Draw cards.  You can't play what you don't have.  

Now the true Rules Lawyers in this group will say something to the effect of "it doesn't say you must observe the current Draw rule immediately after drawing your hand of 3 cards" but to me, that's going way beyond the pale.  Argue it if you want... for me, I follow the wording on one card before I go onto the next card: remember... the cards have no memory.  Finish one, then move on.





 I don't have a copy of "Zombie Quartet" to look at

Zombie Quartet: when it's killed, it doesn't go in the discard pile - it goes to the top of the Draw pile - and there's lots of ways to kill Zombies.... heh heh....


but I imagine that if another player can strategically get it onto the
top of the deck so that you will draw it, you should not be able to simply
"ignore" your draw and win.

I understand what you're saying - but that's part of where Fluxx can be played a bit strategically.  Which, in my opinion (more grains of salt being passed as needed) it part of what is making Zombie Fluxx a better game.  Less chaos (dependent pretty much on what you draw) and more strategy (hey, my brain IS worth something in this game!!  And as more than just Zombie food!!) is, for me, a good thing.


With both the No Hand Bonus and Zombie Quartet, you can still „skirt“ the draw before play and win, if you have the right cards (and it’s always if you have the right cards).  Why?  Because you can use your weapons at any time during your turn to kill off zombies in front of you.  Of course, at this point, that isn’t considered a play, just the ability to observe a New Rule (I believe they both say MAY on them, not MUST) so one might argue that you aren’t actually skirting draw before play, but you are still performing an action.  However, if you are playing regular Fluxx, there isn’t a whole lot you can do without having any cards in your hand, so drawing first in that case is pretty much a must (and only contains a negative connotation if you have the Radioactive Potato).  As well, regular Fluxx ignores the Zombie argument.



Further, I think "play first" allows players to skirt around the intentional
chaos of cards like "Final Card Random" and "First Card Random".  

Is "Final Card Random" Broken or Unfair when it's Draw 3, Play 3, Hand Limit 0?  I draw 3 cards... I play two of them.... here, you choose which I should play for my final card, will you please?  I can think of lots of ways to skirt intentional chaos - that's part of my strategic playing of Fluxx.


More chaos to this one.  Let us assume (I know, I know) that there is a Play 5 in effect, along with Final Card Random.  Now, I play 3 cards, for my fourth card, I play a Play 3.  Playing the Play 3 becomes my final card, however, since it was not in effect until it was played, it was not my final card until it is played.  My final card did not end up being random, but no one could prevent me from going around the rule this way, correct?


One last troubling issue with "play first" is this: when you do choose to
draw, do you have to draw all of the cards that your are required to by the
current draw rule or can you draw only as many as you like, then play more
cards (if allowed) before finishing drawing?  It just seems simpler to
stipulate "must draw first".


Granted, this seems picky, but I understand what you're saying.  I think this part is quite obvious - but then again, you thought the "you should draw first" was obvious.  And I do know plenty of Rules Lawyers who would go to town on this part of the rule.

However, that being said... I'm not sure how much it would really matter.  I would have to play around with this one and see if it makes much of a difference.


As far as I can tell, you can play cards as they come out instead of waiting until you draw them all.  Why?  Because you may (or you may not) play a card which raises or lowers the amount of cards which you draw.  In either case, you observe the new limit, to the best of your abilities, not continue to observe the old limit.  Although I can see this getting confusing when there are multiple bonuses.  For example, it’s draw 4, parent bonus, and you have the computer.  You draw four, and play a draw 2 before continuing.  Do you draw two more cards (4 from the draw limit plus 2 bonus cards) or did you draw all of the cards your allowed (2 plus your 2 bonus cards)?  However, from experience, most players tend to draw all of the cards they are allowed at the same time to give themselves the most options.  But, Zombie Fluxx may change all of that.  We’ll have to see.


As has been noted, making sure everyone knows what is allowed at the begining of the game, no mater how you play, is what is most important.  Otherwise you end up with people going „I didn’t know you could do that!“


Scott Sulzer