I agree with Bob on this one. However, as much as we may have fun discussing and arguing these points, the fact of the matter is that we can avoid these problems with two different methods (of which both can be implemented). 1.) House rules. Must draw before play (or draw immediately if a higher Draw N card comes into play). Or not. With each situation, there are cases to be made for and against it. There is additional strategy in NOT drawing first with the addition of Creepers, but there are always arguments to be made in either direction. (Just look at this list for plenty of examples). 2.) Customize your own deck. Just because you have the card does not mean that it HAS to be in your deck. I just got both Jewish and Christian Fluxx booster packs, and neither one is yet in my deck. Mostly because my 3.1 deck is at a friends house, but still, they aren't in it yet. :) -----Original Message----- From: fluxx-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:fluxx-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Winans Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:49 PM To: 'Fluxx Discussion List' Subject: RE: [Fluxx] After Andy's "Draw First" ruling Under those conditions, I would say yes, they would select another random card from your hand. -----Original Message----- From: fluxx-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:fluxx-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kevin Welch Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:36 PM To: Fluxx Discussion List Subject: RE: [Fluxx] After Andy's "Draw First" ruling > > Is "Final Card Random" Broken or Unfair when it's > Draw 3, Play 3, Hand Limit > 0? I draw 3 cards... I play two of them.... here, > you choose which I should > play for my final card, will you please? I can > think of lots of ways to > skirt intentional chaos - that's part of my > strategic playing of Fluxx. > > > > More chaos to this one. Let us assume (I know, I > know) that there is a Play > 5 in effect, along with Final Card Random. Now, I > play 3 cards, for my > fourth card, I play a Play 3. Playing the Play 3 > becomes my final card, > however, since it was not in effect until it was > played, it was not my final > card until it is played. My final card did not end > up being random, but no > one could prevent me from going around the rule this > way, correct? > Ow... my head is starting to hurt... If I have "final play random" in play and play three currently in effect. I play two cards and then another player randomly chooses "play four". As I have only played three, this player now draw ANOTHER random card from my hand for me to play?? Correct? Anything worth taking seriously is worth making fun of. ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow _______________________________________________ Fluxx mailing list Fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/fluxx _______________________________________________ Fluxx mailing list Fluxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/fluxx