Tim, I have a solution to your quandry. I am a Rabbit and a Retailer. I'd be more than happy to pool monies, order and send invoice any Rabbits who want to send something to Ziggurat, that way, thresholds are met, everyone gets a discount and everyone gets to feel all warm and fuzzy. I'm sure your local FLGS/warren could/would do the same at discount (or near cost) to avoid duplicate ordering but I have to believe that if everyone was generous worldwide then the soldiers may end up with 1 Treehouse/Fluxx per soldier (which sounds like alot) but then wouldn't that be impressive. (solved by sending games most people don't think about like Chrono/EAC, Nano, Aquarius, etc. not just Fluxx) Now I don't really think L.L's intent was to profit from this event (since they will more than likely donate as much or more than I ever will), only to advertise a good cause and their concern for all things ecologically and socially responsible (See Saralee, Ben & Jerry's, Dannon Pink Lids). Perhaps L.L. will ask that I avoid this since its: 1. a logistical/timing nightmare 2. results in my purchasing quantities at bulk price or at cost. Thinking outside-the-box sometimes helps address concerns we have in life and avoids frustration or upset. Good luck, Tim. Evert, -my email is located above and on the Rabbit list for those who want to contact me off-list. Quoting rabbits-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: > Send Rabbits mailing list submissions to > rabbits@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/rabbits > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > rabbits-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rabbits-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of Rabbits digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Donate Games to Ziggurat Con in Iraq (Timothy Hunt) > 2. Re: Donate Games to Ziggurat Con in Iraq (Rebiccola) > 3. Re: Donate Games to Ziggurat Con in Iraq (Marnen > Laibow-Koser) > 4. Re: Donate Games to Ziggurat Con in Iraq (Timothy Hunt) > 5. Re: Donate Games to Ziggurat Con in Iraq (Timothy Hunt) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:05:13 -0500 > From: "Timothy Hunt" <games@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: [Rabbits] Donate Games to Ziggurat Con in Iraq > To: "Rabbits Discussion List" <Rabbits@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, > thelab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Message-ID: > <f9d4f9cf0704191305ha29b4d7w5010ebeb841ebd15@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hey Carol, > > I have to say... I think this is mean. This is for a good cause, > right? > But it seems you are encouraging your most loyal customers to pay > full > retail price, pay full shipping in the order, each rabbit for > themselves instead providing of a decent way to combine our funds, > and > then Looney Labs gets to save money by combining on the shipping! > And > with each rabbit for themselves, there's no co-ordination on what > gets > shipped. What if lots of people bought treehouse and no-one bought > fluxx? > > The soldiers get their games, we pay full price, and Looney labs > makes > a profit from retail and also gets to pocket the extra shipping > they > don't pay. > > Sorry, but that seems mean. > > If the company can't afford to give a discount on games for the > cause, > then that's understandable. But to make a special program that > makes > it look like a good thing, but actually looking closer, it appears > to > be simply a way to encourage sales while making people feel all > warm > and fuzzy about it. > > What I would have liked to have seen is something like: > "Hey, if you donate money to Looney Labs, we'll use that money to > pay > for a discount order, and once we know how much money we have, we > can > nicely split the funds to make sure we get a nice cross section of > our > games out to the soldiers there, and we can use your dollars to > best > effect" > > I'm not expecting you necessarily to not make any money at all > from > the program, but without a discount, I have no incentive to go to > Looney Labs over my FLGS. Indeed, without any financial > incentive, > I'm more tempted to go to my FLGS as I have a wider selection of > games > to choose from. Yes, as was pointed out, there are bulk > discounts > available from LL, but I can't afford an order that size. If > Rabbits > were able to donate to LL somehow, and have you guys figure out > how > much product that money would buy at cost (or just above cost, but > certainly below full retail), I would be HAPPY to support the > program. > > > Timothy > > On 4/19/07, Carol Townsend <rabbit-support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Hi folks! > > > > If you look on the Looney News today: > > http://www.looneylabs.com/index.html > > > > ... then you'll see some cool new stuff - including some > information about > > Ziggurat Con - the first Gaming Convention happening in a war > zone. The > > largest problem with running a Con in Iraq, of course, is that > there are no > > local stores or game publishers. So we decided to help our fans > send some > > games to the Troops! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:42:24 -0400 > From: Rebiccola <rebiccola@xxxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: [Rabbits] Donate Games to Ziggurat Con in Iraq > To: "Rabbits Discussion List" <rabbits@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Message-ID: > <6f87c9bb0704191342g1b40b9ecte9a46e48af5fc26f@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I'm confused. If you go to your FLGS, you have to drive and pay for > gas to > get to the store, pay full price on games INCLUDING tax, drive and > pay for > gas to get to the post office, and pay for shipping to an APO. What > is the > benefit to do that other than wider selection? I don't want to > start a war > here (no pun intended), but I'm just missing your point, I think. > > I am assuming (yeah, I know) that LL has enough sense to put in > items to > balance out the order: if everyone buys treehouse, they'll probably > throw in > some fluxx. > > Sure if something is coordinated, it might be better. But that > would take > time and May 5th is coming up fast. I don't see anything wrong with > LL > charging retail - they are making a donation, and probably won't > be > pocketing our "extra shipping". Although I would agree that it > might be a > good idea for LL to take off or reduce the shipping charge on these > orders, > if there might be "extra". > > Besides, I'm so much happier knowing I'm specifically sending > Martian > Coasters rather than just giving money for a box of LL games. > > -Rebecca: feeling warm and fuzzy > > On 4/19/07, Timothy Hunt <games@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > Hey Carol, > > > > I have to say... I think this is mean. This is for a good cause, > right? > > But it seems you are encouraging your most loyal customers to pay > full > > retail price, pay full shipping in the order, each rabbit for > > themselves instead providing of a decent way to combine our > funds, and > > then Looney Labs gets to save money by combining on the shipping! > And > > with each rabbit for themselves, there's no co-ordination on what > gets > > shipped. What if lots of people bought treehouse and no-one > bought > > fluxx? > > > > The soldiers get their games, we pay full price, and Looney labs > makes > > a profit from retail and also gets to pocket the extra shipping > they > > don't pay. > > > > Sorry, but that seems mean. > > > > If the company can't afford to give a discount on games for the > cause, > > then that's understandable. But to make a special program that > makes > > it look like a good thing, but actually looking closer, it > appears to > > be simply a way to encourage sales while making people feel all > warm > > and fuzzy about it. > > > > What I would have liked to have seen is something like: > > "Hey, if you donate money to Looney Labs, we'll use that money to > pay > > for a discount order, and once we know how much money we have, we > can > > nicely split the funds to make sure we get a nice cross section > of our > > games out to the soldiers there, and we can use your dollars to > best > > effect" > > > > I'm not expecting you necessarily to not make any money at all > from > > the program, but without a discount, I have no incentive to go > to > > Looney Labs over my FLGS. Indeed, without any financial > incentive, > > I'm more tempted to go to my FLGS as I have a wider selection of > games > > to choose from. Yes, as was pointed out, there are bulk > discounts > > available from LL, but I can't afford an order that size. If > Rabbits > > were able to donate to LL somehow, and have you guys figure out > how > > much product that money would buy at cost (or just above cost, > but > > certainly below full retail), I would be HAPPY to support the > program. > > > > > > Timothy > > > > On 4/19/07, Carol Townsend <rabbit-support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > > > Hi folks! > > > > > > If you look on the Looney News today: > > > http://www.looneylabs.com/index.html > > > > > > ... then you'll see some cool new stuff - including some > information > > about > > > Ziggurat Con - the first Gaming Convention happening in a war > zone. The > > > largest problem with running a Con in Iraq, of course, is that > there are > > no > > > local stores or game publishers. So we decided to help our fans > send > > some > > > games to the Troops! > > _______________________________________________ > > Rabbits mailing list > > Rabbits@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/rabbits > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.looneylabs.com/pipermail/rabbits/attachments/20070419/9f1c6c7c/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:20:59 -0400 > From: Marnen Laibow-Koser <marnen@xxxxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: [Rabbits] Donate Games to Ziggurat Con in Iraq > To: Rabbits Discussion List <rabbits@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Message-ID: <44197956-9724-431D-A256-654845E4FE36@xxxxxxxxxx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; > format=flowed > > On Apr 19, 2007, at 4:05 PM, Timothy Hunt wrote: > > > Hey Carol, > > > > I have to say... I think this is mean. > [...] > > Just so we're all understanding each other properly...I assume you > > are using "mean" in the British sense of "stingy, cheap", not in > the > American sense of "rude, impolite". Am I right? > > If I'm right, then I think I agree with you. Ziggurat Con sounds > > like a great cause, but LL could probably be handling the idea > better. > > Best, > -- > Marnen Laibow-Koser > marnen@xxxxxxxxxx > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:25:53 -0500 > From: "Timothy Hunt" <games@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: [Rabbits] Donate Games to Ziggurat Con in Iraq > To: "Rabbits Discussion List" <rabbits@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Message-ID: > <f9d4f9cf0704191425l474d0f4i1fdb9abeec192088@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 4/19/07, Rebiccola <rebiccola@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > I'm confused. If you go to your FLGS, you have to drive and pay > for gas to > > get to the store, pay full price on games INCLUDING tax, drive > and pay for > > gas to get to the post office, and pay for shipping to an APO. > What is the > > benefit to do that other than wider selection? I don't want to > start a war > > here (no pun intended), but I'm just missing your point, I > think. > > My FLGS never said "hey, let's do something great for the > soldiers" > and couch it in such a way that it appears at first glance that > they > are doing something wonderful. > > In any case, I have a good enough relationship with my FLGSs that > I > can almost certainly get a discount from them for this. And the > post > office is always advertising how they'll pick up for free, so I > could > call my store, get them to weigh it to find out how much the > shipping > is, pay for the shipping too, and they can get the box shipped for > me. > > > > > I am assuming (yeah, I know) that LL has enough sense to put in > items to > > balance out the order: if everyone buys treehouse, they'll > probably throw in > > some fluxx. > > > > Sure if something is coordinated, it might be better. But that > would take > > time and May 5th is coming up fast. I don't see anything wrong > with LL > > charging retail - they are making a donation, and probably won't > be > > pocketing our "extra shipping". > > They briefly mention that they'll be throwing in "some stuff games > and > Happy Flowers" with no idea how much that would be. So brief was > the > mention, that when you said they are making a donation, I had to > go > double check the announcement, because frankly, I missed it. If > the > announcement had been "We're giving some games to Ziggurat con, > and > we'd like you to too" it would have come across much better. That > said, I still think that if they gave a discount for this one > purpose, > people would be much more likely to buy, and the overall benefit > would be greater. > > Wholesale prices (that which my FLGS pays) are typically less than > 50% > of retail, and the distributor has already taken their cut at that > point. If LL even gave a 20% discount, we feel better because we > can > get their games to the soldiers with more bang for the buck, LL > still > gets more than if we'd bought through the FLGS, and LL should be > able > to use the opportunity to get some nice publicity. > > I'm NOT trying to be cheap here, I'm simply saying that the > surface > seems to be "we're doing something nice" and deeper down, it looks > more like "Hey, feel good about giving the soldiers some games, > but > pay full retail so we can make money too". It just appears > mercenary. > > I know LL is a small company, I've seen the videos, I've seen the > calls for investors. But a 20% discount to buy direct from LL for > this one purpose only still nets LL more money than if we bought > from > out FLGS. It would be a win (us)-win (LL)-win (soldiers) > situation. > > The curious thing is, it's entirely possible that giving a 20% > discount would actually encourage more people to buy, and for > those > that do, to buy more, that the total sales would actually result in > a > greater profit for LL overall than by making this "offer" at > retail, > and it wouldn't appear nearly as mercenary. > > > Besides, I'm so much happier knowing I'm specifically sending > Martian > > Coasters rather than just giving money for a box of LL games. > > > > As with any donation, you can designate what yours goes to, and > the > recipient is morally if not legally obliged to follow through. So > if > you say "I want my money to be for martian coasters", then that's > what > your money is for. They are then free to balance it out using the > money that others donate without having so designated. > > Come on guys, these are people who are fighting for us, we want to > be > able to give them the best for our money. > > Timothy > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:27:26 -0500 > From: "Timothy Hunt" <games@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: [Rabbits] Donate Games to Ziggurat Con in Iraq > To: "Rabbits Discussion List" <rabbits@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Message-ID: > <f9d4f9cf0704191427y1ff2e8e5m455996328de7de93@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 4/19/07, Marnen Laibow-Koser <marnen@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Apr 19, 2007, at 4:05 PM, Timothy Hunt wrote: > > > > > Hey Carol, > > > > > > I have to say... I think this is mean. > > [...] > > > > Just so we're all understanding each other properly...I assume > you > > are using "mean" in the British sense of "stingy, cheap", not in > the > > American sense of "rude, impolite". Am I right? > > > > If I'm right, then I think I agree with you. Ziggurat Con > sounds > > like a great cause, but LL could probably be handling the idea > better. > > > > A bit of both, actually, but yes, worth reminding people that the > English I speak is sometimes different from the English you speak. > :) > > Timothy > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rabbits mailing list > Rabbits@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > http://lists.looneylabs.com/mailman/listinfo/rabbits > > > End of Rabbits Digest, Vol 23, Issue 18 > *************************************** >