Looney Labs Icehouse Mailing list Archive

RE: [Icehouse] Publishing only a winner and a runner up

  • FromDavid Artman <david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • DateSat, 23 Feb 2008 13:01:19 -0500
Sorry so long to reply....

> From: "Jorge Arroyo" <trozo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> say we officially get only a winner and a runner up from those
> unless in a future competition, we really get many more voters.

This suggestion is merely a weak obfuscation--it's trivially easy to
check the ranks and glean the same information you'd "hide" by modifying
the InfoBox.

> I wouldn't be proud of a 4th place that I know could have easily been
a 7th
> or a 2nd. There's too much power placed on any single voter with the
> voters we got this time.

Then the answer is to acquire more voters.

> In a competition, people will assume the rankings go from best game to
> worst, and that is clearly not the case in this competition.

Wow. I'd smile when I say that (though I'd never say that). You presume
much, if you'd (a) cast dispersions upon the rankings made by our judges
or (b) ask a winner to step off the podium position which he has earned.

> there. In the contest page you can put all the info, but then explain
> the results are not reliable.

It doesn't strike me as effective promotion of the IGDC or encouragement
for judging, to have a statement that the rank tallying method is not
reliable. It's also generally not true. The CRP method is reliable if we
have enough votes. Ergo, gaining votes--not tearing down the comp--is
the correct angle of attack.

> My perception is that as long as we get few voters in the contest, the
> results will be mostly random. I'm not going to throw my designs into
> lottery draw to see if I'm lucky enough to get a nice rating. Sorry.

It's not mandatory. No one is required to participate. Stop doing so, if
it brings you pain.

I think you've kinda lost sight of the point of the comp: to get
playtesters, refine rules and presentation, and make more good games
which "fill out" IHG.org. "Winning" is incidental, as is "losing." In
fact, if you really thought about it, you'd see that a lower-ranked game
is going to draw more feedback and refinement than a higher-ranked
(presumably "finished") game. Rejoice!

> we're going to continue getting an unjustified hall of fame/shame each
> contest, count me out. There are other ways to promote and get people
> play your games, and I'd rather find those other ways. Even just
> the games to the wiki seems a better idea right now...

I repeat what I posted in the other thread: look at how many IGDC games
are refined, versus how many "tossed up" games are half-baked, confused,
or not even really started (I am guilty of having all three of those
levels of incompletion at this very moment).

Again, leave if you want to do so; but don't expect those of us enjoying
IGDC participation to pack up when you've gone.

As for the IGDC InfoBox: make your own "Top Three" box, or remove the
existing one from your game's page. Do not presume to change the
existing one--a thing of tradition which I, for one am glad to display
on my 6th- and 4th-place games. Why would I be happy about such a
"disparagement" as 6th? Well, that box shows that I hung it out there
and tried, when scores of others sat and watched. I don't want to be
listed as some kind of "also ran," hiding the fact that I happened to
get 4th or 6th for any one of a bajillion reasons (number of ballots,
common preferences of the types of gamers drawn to Icehouse, game type,
difficulty to master, whatever).

If you change the {{IGDCsssYYYY}} templates, I'll change them back; so
just drop that crusade, please, for both of our sakes. You just can't
tell others what to display on their pages....