> This conversation has gone on far, far too long. It needs to die. Actually, I've found the discussion quite interesting. The accusations that have begun, though, are uninteresting and unnecessary. The truth-value of statements about non-existing items is a fascinating topic. It is not cut-and-dried and apparent to everyone, and there are good arguments to be made about the various sides of the issue. There is no need to belittle those who look at it differently. What we've been missing is the appropriate term for such statements: "Vacuously true." There is a very interesting article about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuous_truth . I do agree with keeping the discussion about Icehouse games. But since Zendo is very much about logic, discussions about logic will naturally turn up. Logic is not intuitive for most people -- in my grad school computer science classes we'd sometimes have big arguments about symbolic logic, with all of us being intelligent geeky sorts, who naturally go for that kind of thing. So disagreements are almost inevitable. Let's just have them with good will and humor. Regards, Bryan