Looney Labs Icehouse Mailing list Archive

[Icehouse] Move the Wiki, Even If It Means a New Domain Name (Warning: long and language)

  • FromDavid Artman <david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • DateWed, 19 Sep 2007 14:15:47 -0700
OK, I am stunned... absolutely stunned....

Mike Sugarbaker just banned me from the icehousegames.org wiki for a day
(sorry IGDC players; you'll have to wait) because I DARED to question
him or reply to insults he posted to me. So I'm taking it public:

---From Mikes' Talk Page (see History)----------
Quoted from article page: "I don't aim to be a GodKing is what I'm

    You could have fooled me, Mike--we have asked REPEATEDLY for you to
allow other, more committed people to be admins... and you don't do a
thing about it while, meanwhile, the site is being torn to shreds by
bots. Do us--and yourself--a favor and make Brian Campbell, myself, and
anyone else on the Rabbit Admins list an admin. 
    Conversely, get in touch with Brian Campbell, who has repeatedly
offered to host the wiki for you (saving you the onus of having to show
up and click a few links once a month). 
    You, sir, have failed us. Lead, follow, or get out of the way....
--David Artman 10:46, 19 September 2007 (EDT) 

        Hey, you know what? A GodKing would have deleted the sodding
site by now based solely on how rude and entitled one user acts. Can you
guess which one? Repeat after me: 1) The admin is not paid for his time
here and is oversubscribed with things he must be doing or else cease to
get paid at all; 2) yes, transferring the site's ownership is a thing
that takes time too; 3) it is just a website and I should really keep my

            Hey, YOU know what? That's horseshit. #1 in particular is
completely begging the question--if it takes so much of your precious
unpaid time, then ASSIGN OTHERS AS ADMINS. Placing yourself as sole
gatekeeper on this site, then only showing up for a day or so every
month, isn't exactly worthy of praise, ESPECIALLY now that the site is
experiencing a resurgence of interest. 
            And if you want to delete the sodding site, DO SO or shut up
about such empty threats. It would be the height of lameness to do so
over ONE person's ranting, but hey! Do what your ego requires, to prove
that I'm an asshole. 
            And on that note, I have been VERY, VERY patient and polite
with you for, oh, the past half a year or so (see my post below, all
full of "please" and "thank you" and nice, mealy-mouth politeness trying
to cajole). I have asked and asked and begged and waited and, still,
we're hardly a step further than we were in 2006, WRT site navigation or
spam prevention. Again, if it's such a burden on your time, assign
others to help or allow someone to FTP into your wiki folder to copy it
off this site to a new one, removing you from the onus of being helpful
ever again. 
            Single me out all you want... but your insults don't speak
to the allegations against you AT ALL and are, thus, mere empty
rhetoric. --David Artman 15:00, 19 September 2007 (EDT) 

                (#2 above) I won't even entertain as a valid point. You
can't have your cake and eat it too: you can't talk about having "no
time to admin" but also "no time to give the site over." That's just
incoherent babbling--if you are so put-upon, then the ten minutes it
would take to register someone else as the icehousegames.org net admin
is TRIVIAL compared to the time you will spend, indefinitely, keeping up
with admin tasks. 
                Oh, and "just a website" (#3 above) pretty much proves
how little you regard this site as a tool for promoting Looney Labs and
Icehouse pyramids. Meanwhile, I demo ALL THE TIME and I routinely refer
folks to this site to discover the variety and coolness of pyramids. If
I'm passionate (your words: "rude and entitled") it's because I am doing
GOOD for the Looneys and I want them to succeed and, thus, constant
delays and excuses wear thin after a while and frustrate me (and, I am
sure, new users)... especially when the solution is to click about six
or seven buttons to set some other users as admins. 
                If anyone here acts "entitled," bub, it's you--yeah,
yeah, you host the site (because you won't give up the domain
registration) and you pay for the server (because you won't let someone
who won't use that as leverage take it over); but in point of fact, your
presumption of precedence actually makes YOU the one acting entitled. WE
made these games and this site, not you. If we need support--and you're
just too darned busy to find the time--then, as I said, "get out of the
way." Pack up your rhetoric, set you defensive logical fallacies aside,
and let those of use who CARE do the heavy lifting. --David Artman
15:40, 19 September 2007 (EDT) 

His response was to not only ban me but to ALSO delete my entire reply
with a snarky "you'll have to check the history to give him attention."

This man is, put simply, not worth our time, nor should he be the
gatekeeper of a site geared to promoting Icehouse and, by extension,
Looney Labs products. He has abused his admin powers to shut out one of
the most active members (also in charge of a contest running at this
very minute) and, further, he attempts to hide debate rather than
respond to it.

I say again, I know he's a friend to some of you; but all I see is a
petty person who's too busy to help and too egotistical to let someone
else take over (or to let someone's criticism remain visible). Thus, I
am asking the list--and any others you'd care to poll--if we should just
move the whole wiki off his site and ignore his version, henceforth.

He won't give over the domain registration (it seems--never has replied
to that suggestion) and so this move would also involve a new domain
name. Perhaps he would be so good as to setup a redirect from his
defunct site, but even if so, it will cause a bit of a transition (like
renaming any site does).

Those of you who think this is some kind of "personal problem" being
dragged into the light, I only ask: What's priority should we, as
Demoers, Designers, and Rabbits, have for that wiki? Accommodating
Mike's schedule, regardless of frustrations, vandalism, and titanically
slow turnaround on admin requests? Or should we prioritize a strong new
user experience and high responsiveness to persistent problems with the

I am, if it isn't obvious, incensed. I simply can not believe this is a
valid "admin-like" response to a site member's frustrations. That is why
I am now calling on the list to decide, here and now, if this is the
"leadership" we want moving forward with the Icehouse wiki. Absentee
admin who snuffs out criticism and gags critics? Or a new wiki with
responsive admins and no central owner to lord over the domain?

Any domain I register I will give to the Looneys. Further, I will pay
for the domain registration upkeep indefinitely ($2 a year ain't gonna
break me). If someone can host, I say we start moving immediately.
Perhaps Mike will be so good as to give someone FTP access to the wiki
folder, to save us a lot of laborious copy and pasting (not likely, I
imagine now).

Kristin, Andy? I think you two might be the only ones who will have any
influence with this guy. PLEASE... ask him to give it up to you. I think
Brian will host for a while (ya?) and I've already promised to pay for
the domain (yea, even if I am paying Mike to buy it from him--$1 for the
rest of the year). It will cost you guys an e-mail, in the short term,
and a bit of storage on your hosting service, in the long run (the
domain name can be mapped to a sub-domain off Wunderland or LooneyLabs
or an all-new web host space).

In the end, the deciding factor is labor... and Mike--he could take the
site down and effectively "delete" all our work; or he could save us
many hours by allowing an FTP transfer of the wiki. If the list has the
will, we can do it... if Mike doesn't screw us like he screwed me.

Mike, if you're reading... you should be ashamed! You should know better
than to try to silence someone like me, with such lame-ass, draconian
measures. I ain't ONE BIT afraid to call a jerk a jerk... and I ain't
ONE BIT afraid to give as good as I get.

Iceheads... it's our move, if we want it. Otherwise, its SN:AFU with
Mike and icehousegames.org....

With the strongest of feelings;