I meant Icehouse the game, so I'm disappointed to hear that it degrades, because I'm expecting to have 5 players on Friday. But, we'll see. Thanks for the lists, I can't wait to try Penguin Soccer. I'm surprised he rated Zendo so low, though. I wonder how a modification of Zendo would work out: Any player with a guessing stone may guess ~every~ time a koan is completed. Guessing priority begins with the player who built the koan. That player may take one guess, if he has a guessing stone, or pass. Then each other player, in turn order, may spend a guessing stone. The player who built the koan gets a second opportunity to guess, then all the other players, in turn order, until all players pass. At that point, the "turn" moves to the next player in turn order who begins creating their koan. It seems to me that that would keep players more involved. They'd have more frequent opportunities to guess, and watching the koans as they happen would be much more important. I see Zendo as more friendly than competitive... -- David L. Willson Network Engineer MCT, MCSE, Linux+ tel://720.333.LANS ----- Original Message ----- From: "S Myers" <iamthecheeze@xxxxxxxxx> Icehouse the game I think starts to fFall apart at around 5 players. I'm not an expert on that subject. As an example, Zendo works perfectly with 4 players. With less players, the game devolves to arbitrary amounts of guessing. With more players, it can be fFrustrating when you have a good idea, but you have to wait and wait and wait while everyone else attempts to steal your win.