Looney Labs Fluxx Mailing list Archive

RE: [Fluxx] Why You Can't Apply the Hand Limit During Your Turn

  • From"Virden, Larry W." <lvirden@xxxxxxx>
  • DateWed, 10 Oct 2007 15:29:30 -0400
I thought the way that the second paragraph, which applys to a player during his/her turn, comes into play was in this fashion.
  1. Assume a Hand limit of 2 is in effect.
  2. Now, the turn player plays a card that gives everyone playing a card. This is no problem for the player with no cards or one card. But a player with two cards now, immediately, has to discard some card in their hand.
  3. However, the turn player has no such compulsion - because the rule says "during your turn, you may ignore the hand limit". In fact, they can draw dozens of cards throughout their play.
  4. BUT, from the interpretation by Andy, as I understand it, the turn player can choose to apply the Hand Limit at any point during their play, allowing them to discard without playing cards over the limit (and I'm certain that Andy, or one of the other rule lawyers, will correct my characterisation of the Looney Ruling if I have misunderstood it).


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From: fluxx-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:fluxx-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of James Hazelton
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 3:16 PM
To: Fluxx List
Subject: [Fluxx] Why You Can't Apply the Hand Limit During Your Turn

I would like to preface this by saying that this has absolutely nothing to do with Playing Before Drawing, except for that I realized this after the issue made me take a closer look at my cards. In fact, I'm done arguing for Drawing Before Playing. I've made my point (loudly), and I can now only let others make the choice for themselves. Now, on with the logic!

Hand Limit 2
If it isn't your turn, you should only have 2 cards in your hand. If you have extra cards, discard them immediately.

During your turn, you may ignore the Hand Limit, as long as you discard all but 2 of your cards when you end your turn.

To recall, the basis for the decision that you can apply the Hand Limit during your turn comes from the third sentence. "During your turn, you may ignore the Hand Limit..." The use of the word "may" implies that you may also choose not to ignore--and thus apply--the Hand Limit during you turn. This is a very specific ruling based on a loophole in the text. However, if we look more closely at it, we see that no loophole actually exists.

What part of the Hand Limit does the "During your turn" player (hereafter known as the "turn player") get to ignore? Obviously not the first paragraph, as that is clearly directed at players whose turn it isn't (hereafter known as "non-turn players"). The only part of the Hand Limit that applies to the turn player is the power to ignore the Hand Limit. In effect, he can ignore only his power to ignore.

The compulsion to discard applies to only the non-turn players, and the turn player when his turn ends. Since neither of these affect the turn player when it is his turn, he does not have the power to not ignore (and thus apply) the power to discard cards.

This was terrible to try and explain. I deleted whole paragraphs three times because they weren't clear enough. If anything doesn't make sense now, please let me know.