NOTE: For clarity, because I'm going to refer to multiple cards in a couple of places, I'm going to refer to "1, 2, 5!" as 125 below - that way, the commas don't get all weird. Also, "Draw 3/5" means "the card which says Draw 3 but is being affected to act like a Draw 5, and is about to be affected by something else." On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:30 AM, <AniLocatN@xxxxxxx> wrote: > > That's not correct though. You applied the cards in opposite order of the > original application. There's nothing in the Fluxx rules or on the cards that imposes that sequence, and in fact there are numerous rulings that emphasize that all the New Rules in play are continuously in effect and order isn't supposed to matter. There's nothing about "passes across the playing field" or seniority of play or cessation of effect, or anything like that, and that's exactly why Inflation and 125 contradict each other. They're both trying to act simultaneously, but they're doing different things, and therefore they come into conflict. Furthermore, there's a flaw in your original logic: > No matter which order you apply them in, as long as you decide that > things are only applied once, anything that was originally 3 ends up > counting as a 6. The Inflation affects the numbers ON 1, 2, 5! This > means with Inflation counting first, 1, 2, 5! reads: > > "Anytime the numeral 4 appears on another card, treat that number as though it were really a 6." > > And if you choose to apply 1, 2, 5! first, all threes become 5's and are then increased to 6's via Inflation. The flaw is that both Inflation and 125 speak in terms of the numbers that appear on the cards. Neither one mentions working with calculated values at all. So, using your example of Draw 3, Inflation, and 125, either: (a) 125 affects Draw 3, making it act like Draw 5. Inflation now affects the Draw 3/5 card and makes it Draw 3/4, because the number printed on the card is 3, and 3+1 = 4. Result: draw four cards. or, (b) Inflation affects 125, making it act like 236, and affects Draw 3, making it act like Draw 4. 125/236 now says to treat all printed "4" as "6" - which has no affect on Draw 3/4, as there's no 4 printed on it. Result: draw four cards. In that specific example, both methods lead to the same result - but what if we change the Draw 3 to a Draw 4 instead? (a) 125 has no effect on Draw 4. Inflation now affects the Draw 4 card and makes it Draw 5. Result: draw five cards. or, (b) Inflation affects 125, making it act like 236, and affects Draw 4, making it act like Draw 5. 236 now says to treat all "4" as "6" - which changes Draw 4/5 to Draw 6. Result: draw six cards. CONFLICT! > You can't pick and choose the order in which one affects the field vs the > other. And yet, that's exactly what you just insisted that we should do; you protested when someone applied the cards in a different order than the one you'd specified. You can't have it both ways, and Fluxx is designed to lead to consistent results regardless of sequence in such cases. > I thought, from previous discussions in the archives, that the people in > this list would be more open to seeing things from a different perspective. Saying "I'm going to disregard this rule" is hardly just "a different perspective." The designer of the game has decreed that when you play 125, if Inflation is already in play, then you discard Inflation - and vice versa. It's on the rules sheet that you got with MPF. If you don't want to play that way, that's fine, just like it's fine if you want to play Monopoly where you put money into a pot that gets collected when you hits Free Parking. It might be fun, and I might even play that way, but it's not in the official rules. You can mark it as a house rule and we could discuss its merits in that respect, or you can keep insisting that you're playing by the real rules, and we'll keep pointing out that you aren't. Which way do you want it? > The cards do not conflict unless you pick and choose when they affect > different cards. If you take one into account for all cards, and then take > the other into account for all cards, everything works fine. In your opinion. The rules say that both cards are not to be in play simultaneously - period. Bottom line, as far as I'm concerned: Andy was wise to say that; it's just so much easier to deal with. -- Robert Hood - Hixson, TN SJG MIB #8595 - Looney Labs Rabbit - Atlas Games Mook Next con: ChattaCon, Jan. 23-25, 2009 - http://www.chattacon.org Special Guest: Steve Jackson!